Talk:Miss Universe/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Shound't USA and PR be together

Puerto Rico is not a country, it's a property of the USA, therefore the tally should be given together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.9.107 (talk) 02:48, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


Why no pictures?

Umm, I am a bit disappointed. WHY ARE THERE NO PICTURES? :) Thue | talk 18:18, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This page should not be merged with Miss Universe Organization

The MUO article has many factual errors. OH and another thing why are some links removed while others are left on the page???? Mito 22:06, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup

I have no particular love for this subject, but this article had many redundancies. While cleaning it up:

  • I removed rows from the "Title holders" table claiming that the 2006 pageant will be held in Calgary and the 2007 pageant in Taipei, and a separate paragraph giving a list of three possible cities for 2006. At the time of writing, I can find no other Web site (even those specializing in Miss Universe news) that even names the 2006 venue, though I can find a very up-to-date page that lists eight bidding cities for 2006, which leads me to think that the Wikipedia claims were invented.
  • Alal22000, you added Natalie_1.jpg while I was halfway through. (My fault for taking so long.) I decided not to merge it in, because (1) that picture has no copyright info, (2) your caption claimed that Calgary will hold the 2006 pageant without any reference, and (3) more than one picture of the same title holder is probably excessive anyway. You could probably fix (1) and (2), but a picture of something more interesting (the finalists? the judges? the effect of the pageant on the host city?) would be nice.
  • One sentence: "The most popular national pageants are Miss USA, Femina Miss India, Miss Peru, and Miss Venezuela." Another: "Among the most important national pageants in the world are the Miss India, Miss Philippines, Miss USA, Miss Colombia, Miss Peru, Miss Puerto Rico, and Miss Venezuela Universe contests, all of which command consistently high interest and television ratings in their respective countries." Well, which is it? I've gone for the second because it's part of a more informative paragraph, but I'm not happy about doing so without a reference.
  • I found this sentence, which I think is the worst sentence I've ever seen in Wikipedia: "The Miss Universe pageant, as already mentioned, is held annually in May or June and requires months of preparation before the actual pageant is actually held in either the USA or outside the USA." Wrong on so many levels.

-- Mpt 20:10, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

NO EVIDENCE

"Lara Dutta of India is one of the few Miss Universes of recent history to win by unanimous vote, while Wendy Fitzwilliam of Trinidad and Tobago and Denise Quiñones of Puerto Rico won with a deadlocked jury."

who is the source of this information —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.22.142.163 (talk) 2005-12-28 00:00

the information were fed to the media through interviews of the judges, you can search for them and indeed, a (female?) judge said that lara dutta was the unanimous choice, while a judge in 1998 said that there was a deadlocked jury when they chose the winner. this also happened in 2001. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quinte Eye (talk • contribs) 2006-01-01 03:32

You have to be more specific with your sources. You cant just say a judge. A lot of information is fabricated. There are several inaccurate pageant articles here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.22.142.103 (talk) 2006-01-07 10:58

Yearly Information

i remember right after the 2005 pageant, when the top five's names were posted in the miss universe main article. there were also several information related specifically to that edition which were incorporated into the main article. so as to avoid the future inconvenience of cleaning this up and once more adding specific information and facts related to an upcoming edition, i suggest to just devote an entire new article for every addition--the winners list, the host city, trivia, etc.--then just link this with this site through the year's text. in that way, we can avoid any misinformation that may just apply to a specific edition, not the pageant as a whole. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quinte Eye (talk • contribs) 2005-01-03 05:09

national titles

why is there a need to add a national title column on the titleholders' table? the reason why these winners were able to compete in the competition in the first place is that they earned the titles, besides, this is a page on miss universe, not their national titles. one might just include these national titles as part of each winner's personal pages.

The national title column is there mainly for the link. Linking to the country as a whole doesn't really give relevent into. But, the pageant link has relevant information. Also, the title (and organization) is not always guarenteed to be in the form "Miss Country". --Rob 07:24, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

So what about just linking the national titles link to the country names, similar to the ones used in the Miss USA winners page? When they win, they no longer use the title "Miss Country" or any other national ones, but "Miss Universe". And in actuality, for such winners, they become associated with the country they represented, not necessarily with the organization (e.g. Miss Universe Natalie Glebova of Canada [or from Russia], not Natalie Glebova, Miss Universe Canada). A perfect example of this is the policy of handing over to the 1st runner up the national title whenever the Miss USA wins Miss Universe. National title is only of relevance when the representative doesn't win a "higher" or more prestigious title.

Oxana Fedorova won MISS RUSSIA, not KRASA ROSSI, which is the "Beauty of Russia" title affiliated with the Miss World competition.

Anne Marie Pohtamo won MISS FINLAND title in 1975. Se has never been on Suomen Neito. Those are different competitions! (if you don't believe it read her book!!) Armi Kuusela had never been on Miss Finland (Eva Hellas won Miss Finland 1952 competition) competition but she's Suomen Neito 1952.

Related Miss USA discussion about listing winners

At Talk:Miss USA it's being discussed if it was good to put winners in a separate article, or if they should be merged back into the main article. I thought editors of this article, would be interested in that discussion, as similiar issues apply to this article. --Rob 23:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, this is worth considering. Although only one row is added per year, in the case of such an old pageant like the Ms. Universe (50+ editions already), it will actually make the main article quite long and boring, might as well transfer the winners list to a link in case viewers are interested. This may also be applied to the Miss World article.

National pageants section

This is one section essential to the Miss Universe article that I just realized as glaringly lacking. The article talks about the selection of contestants to represent countries. So why not include a listing of all the national pageants that are affiliated with the organization as a section? Then again, when some editors are already expressing their reservation with respect to the length of the winners list, this should be made into a new article. It is in such a section/article where I think the "National title" column from the winners list should be made available (i.e. the new section/article could be a table with a column for the country, a column for the national pageant, and a column for the Miss Universe winners it has produced). Note that the national pageant may vary within a nation across years. The removal of the "National title" from the winners column is consistent with my opinion before that such is inappropriate for the section featuring winners--the Miss Universe winner is affiliated with the country, not necessarily with the national pageant, this despite the fact that her ticket to the Miss Universe pageant was through winning the national pageant. Besides, the winners list here is the most peculiar online, for it is the only one that features such a column. Joey80 06:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Electronic voting in Statistics section

Can someone explain why this is part of the Statistics section? It is more a part of the pageant's history/selection process, so how about moving it there? Moreover, the results included here is somewhat truncated from the Electronic voting topic (i.e. when electronic systems was first used in the Olympics, they just mentioned it in the history that it was in this edition that this was introduced, they didn't get carried away by listing down the results). It might as well be moved to a new article referring to the specific edition of the pageant. Joey80 05:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Define "important"

Among the most important national pageants in the world ... which command consistently high interest and television ratings in their respective countries How does high interest and high ratings translate into "important"? --Eddylyons 22:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Obviously, from the marketing point of view, pageants are events. Hence, for those national pageants which generate lots of interests, especially those of Latin American, then the events not just attract viewers, but money from sponsors and the attention of the media. Note that the system is arranged in such a way that the body in charge of organizing the national pageant pays for the right to hold it (and hence, find a representative for the state) to the international pageant (e.g. Miss Universe Organization). Hence, continued interest in the national pageant means a steady stream of cash to the international pageant, as well as the transplantation of the national interest to the international pageant. Note that "important" is not really similar to "prestigious". In the latter, the title is gained by the performance of the national representatives in the international scene, in addition to the intense competition associated with it locally (e.g. Miss Venezuela and Miss Puerto Rico).
Still, I question as to how this qualifies it as "important". It sounds like POV to me. Eddylyons 00:35, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Pre-1952 winners

The German wikipedia has a list of winners before 1952, when it was a pageant in Galveston, TX.

That is not the same as this contest (refer to the official website). It might have just been a case of two different contests having the same name. --Joey80 09:37, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Most Time Winners section

is this really necessary when we already have the map? besides, the section title states "MOST time winners", so why does it need to include in the table all the countries which won the title? either we cut the table (like the winners list), or we change the title. also, it seems that editors are crediting russia and panama in these lists (and the map) which means we have more winners than editions. please understand the russia is placed in the winners list to reflect the fact that she was crowned, but she was dethroned. in keeping with the official list (from the official website), that win is discounted, hence, to be faithful to that, any reference to russia in the statistics and map should be removed, or at least be kept in the footnote. --Joey80 09:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we need the table, personally. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 21:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't mind the table. It's much easier to read than the map. -- Lancini87 00:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


Selections

"Despite the "casted" Australian delegate, Jennifer Hawkins, being chosen as Miss Universe in 2004, Australia resumed its national pageant to choose Michelle Guy as Miss Universe Australia 2005." - I think Australia's 2006 delegate, Erin McNaught, was again casted through an agency. - Matthew238 05:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Getting out of hand

The features and content of this page are getting out of hand. Locations of all the editions were placed in the Trivia, well, it's not really a trivia, but part of history (and this could just be linked to the winners list), then there is also the statistics by geographic region, to add to other statistics like by country, etc. I think that an overhaul of this article is needed, paying close attention to repeated facts, as well as the Trivia section going too far that "Trivia" is no longer the appropriate word. --Joey80 13:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, this article has shown significant improvement in the last few weeks. But there are still repetitive information that needs to be removed. For example, there is already a table showing the number of wins by state, there is also a map showing this, and in the Trivia section, there is also a bullet point entry telling which state was the most successful in terms of number of wins.
Since the titleholders table is too long, we decided to move the entire list and retain just a portion of it in this page. I think this should also be done with the table showing the hosts, color commentators, etc. Oh by the way, found another repetitive info: it was already stated in the main article that Manila, Bangkok and Panama City have hosted the pageant twice, and this is again indicated in the trivia. Joey80 06:06, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Criticism section?

I know that I have complained about this article having too many sections and recently having too much information, even unnecessary ones being included (probably due to the recently concluded edition). Well, maybe these sections, since each is quite long, could be put in separate articles (like the one done to the winners list, and similar to the 2006 World Cup article). In such a case, I am also proposing that we add a criticism section, provided that information contained here have references. Some examples of criticisms: Miss Photogenic is decided based on popular vote (I think we don't have any issue there), judges coming from American and Latin American background (hence, recent winners, and even most finalists, mostly come from these regions), etc. For the latter criticism, personally, I can't blame the management since their market is the Western Hemisphere, in as much as the market of Miss World is Europe. I even read several articles claiming that ever since Donald Trump took over, there has been more and more emphasis on beauty, while sacrificing personality, intelligence and other factors, even quoting him somewhere along the line that people watch the pageant because they want to see beauty win. Such was said to be the reason that the interview section (which was scored up to the late 1990s) was removed, since those who are not beautiful can end up as finalists. In fact, there were even reports for the 2006 edition that five or the Top 20 finalists were personally handpicked by Trump. In any case, if such a section be included, constant editing and watching are recommended to prevent the section going overboard, similar to the main Miss Universe article. --Joey80 08:30, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

World Cup of Beauty claim

Is this really a legitimate comparison? Although such was said by the host in the 2006 pageant, I think that was more of an allusion to a recent event, rather than a byname to the event, after all, it takes place annually. Such an allusion was also used in the 2001 pageant in Puerto Rico, when the host said it was the Olympics of Beauty, again, in reference to the 2000 Olympics. Joey80 13:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Tallest, Oldest Miss Universe Winners

The shortest Miss Universe (in terms of height) and the youngest winner are both indicated in the trivia section. What about their respective opposites? Who was the tallest Miss Universe ever? Who was the oldest at the time of her crowning? For the former, I think the honor belongs to Amelia Vega (6'1). Taller candidates are a recent trend and, going back to the winners of the last few years where the heights of the candidates are more accessible to the public, she is definitely one of the tallest in recent memory. As for winners that may even exceed the 6'0 stature, I don't think that was broken in the editions going back 10, 20 or even 30 years before, when the height of 5'7 or 5'8 is already considered tall and sufficient to earn a crown (note: the shortest Miss Universe, at 5'4 won in 1988). As for the oldest at the time of her crowning, that will require a more extensive research. We have the relevant dates for when each of the edition took place, although the birth year (or even the birthday) of some winners are lacking or even uncertain. I am thinking of making another table (of course, with only the more recent editions partially included in the main article, a la the winners list) of the data, place (as in the theater/venue name) and host city/state of each edition. Joey80 06:18, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


the shortest Miss universe is Apsara honskun (sp?). She won in 1965. You have the wrong Miss thiland

Anyway, whatever. The shortest Miss Universe trivia is already placed in the article. The point of this section is to include the opposite spectrum of such categories. Joey80 13:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

National Costume winners

Hi! Since the outfits of National Costume winners appeal to the senses (especially visually), don't you think it is a good idea for the picture of each edition's winner be included in the edition's article? Thanks. Joey80 13:17, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Black Contestants

Who classifies as a black contestant? Chelsi had been included but Zuleyka was left out. both are multiracial with Black Ancestors. When do we drawn the line? the wikipedia entry for "black" states the three folllowing criteria ancestry, self-identity, and appearance.

here is a pic of Zuleyka Grandparents http://www.endi.com/XStatic/endi/images/espanol/zullyabu6.jpg

Should Chelsi and Zuleyka be included as Black Contestants or at least as contestants having black ancestry?

National titles

It was a good idea to give the national title for each Miss Universe, but I suggest to remove it because it is not accurate at all.

Indeed, old titles in the 50's or 60's were not always the same as those awarded today. I am not sure that Miss Greece in the 60's was already Star Hellas, I don't think the word "Universe" was included in Miss Japan's title, I know Miss España used to be "Señorita España"...

Furthermore, Colombia's own Luz Marina Zuluaga (Miss Universe 1958) never won the "Señorita Colombia" title, many use to say that she was the first runner-up, but in several occasions, Ms. Zuluaga has said herself that it is a mistake since at that time such placements were not announced.

France's own Christiane Martel was not awarded neither the same Miss France title we know these days.

For that reason I suggest that we should create a new section featuring the current national titles of the delagates competing at the Miss Universe pageant. And erase therefore the national title from the winners' list since there are too many mistakes.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Miss_Universe_winners"

Trivia queries

Someone kept emphasizing that Puerto Rico has Commonwealth status in the location section of the trivia. While this is true, note that the context of this article is not political, but as an event. Hence, Puerto Rico competes on equal terms with the United States. And the fact that it competes as a separate entity means that state/country/territory-wise, it is separate from USA (again, in the context of this event), hence, the first pageant to be held outside the United States is in 1972 (in Puerto Rico).

In any case, I also removed the trivia entry listing down the number of titles won by countries, since this is repetitive. This is already displayed Winning years for each country section and in a better presentation (i.e. in table form, which is easier to browse through, instead of text).

Also, there are some trivia entries that are truncated:

  • The USA is followed by Venezuela (33), Sweden and Brazil (both 28), Colombia (27), Germany (21), Israel (20), England (19), Finland, Greece and India (all 18), Norway(17), Peru, South Africa, Canada, Japan, and Puerto Rico (16 each). Of these countries, only England has yet to win the contest.
    • This point couldn't stand alone. Do you understand what this entry is implying? Anyway, this is connected to a previous entry, so either combine them, or complete the idea being implied here.
  • The United States has been the most successful state to compete in Miss Universe in the 1950s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. In the 1960s, Finland was the most successful nation, and Venezuela has been most successful in the 2000s., this is followed by another entry, The most successful state in the past twenty years has been Venezuela, which placed continually for 21 years, from 1983 to 2003, nearly beating the United States' 22-year streak between 1977-1998. While Alicia Machado has been the only Venezuelan Miss Universe in the last decade, of the nine following pageants, four have seen Venezuela's representative place first runner-up (1997, 1998, 2000, and 2003).
    • The first point indicates that USA is the most successful in 1990s, while Venezuela in 2000s. But the second says that Venezuela is the most successful in the last two decades. At least, in the second point, the basis of such a statement is included. In the first entry, this is not clear (albeit a source is cited).
  • Colombia had three first-runner up placements from 1992-1994, a streak that has been unparallelled in competition history. The only country to have done better is Venezuela, which won in 1996 and placed first runner-up in 1997 and 1998.
    • Wrong sentence construction! Colombia's feat is unparalleled. But how come Venezuela bettered it? In any case, this entry might be saying that with the exception of Venezuela's feat in 1996-98, Colombia's three-year streak is the best. But the first statement seems to state this absolutely, instead of relatively, sweeping away all other arguments (note: it states unparalleled in competition history, although this statement is qualified with the only country to have done better in the following sentence, the first statement still outweighs the second, making for an awkward statement).
  • Finland has had the most consecutive runners-up. For five years, from 1965 to 1969, its delegates placed among the five finalists without interruption (1965: Virpi Miettinen, first runner-up, 1966: Satu Ostring, first runner-up, 1967: Ritva Lehto, third runner-up, 1968: Leena Brusiin, second runner-up, and 1969: Harrieti Eriksson, first runner-up).
    • The first part of the second sentence is redundant. The first statement says that Finland has consecutive runner-up finishes, the second then puts this in a timeframe, but again emphasizing that it is without interruption. Duh! Because it is consecutive..., no need to include without interruption there.

Joey80 14:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Fontana, California?

I just corrected a bit of subtle vandalism, but I'm surprised that nobody else caught it. Since 5 August 2006, the article has said that the first contest was in Fontana, California, instead of the correct city, Long Beach, California [1]. BlankVerse 11:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Russia, 2002

I was reseaching what happened to the Russian entry in 2002. From what I read, Oxana Fedorova indicates that she resigned because due to time constraints which kept her from continuing her reign. Considering the controversy, wouldn't it be more fair to list that there is some dispute about what happened? Minimia 22:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The songs that is used in Ms. Universe 09

I Gotta Feeling by The Black Eyed Peas is also included on the music list before Fire Burning by Sean Kingston. Please check this section right here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iansal94 (talk • contribs) 07:26, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Miss World? Miss Earth???

Miss Universe is easily the most widely publicized of the international beauty competitions, but the lede puts it on the same level as Miss World and even Miss Earth(!). I suggest both of these be removed. Kauffner (talk) 16:26, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

  • The reference you cited did not directly quote the revision you made. The original statement that you revised was well-referenced, which states: "Along with its rival contests, Miss World and Miss Earth, this pageant is one of the most publicized beauty contests in the world."
http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=64606
http://www.tnp.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,168817,00.html
Remember that the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true. See Wikipedia:Verifiability.--Angel Clinton (talk) 04:36, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Do you actually believe that Miss Earth is a pageant in the same league as Miss Universe, or are you just Wikilawyering? If you do believe this, I suggest you google "Miss Universe" and "Miss Earth" and compare the result numbers. There are five times more hits for Miss Universe and most of the hits for Miss Earth relate to the Philippines. The point of Wikipedia is to provide useful information to the reader, not put an article together according to some lobotomized set of rules. Even by your own argument, there is no basis to prefer Daijiworld.com over Slate. The Slate article states that Miss Universe is "far more successful" than Miss World.[2] We can use this exact wording, if that is what is bothering you. From the way Slate describes Miss Earth in the last paragraph, this pageant is obviously not as prestigious as either of the other two. Kauffner (talk) 12:29, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
The Slate article from 2003, two years after the beginning of Miss Earth, is a bit outdated. It's also not a news medium but an opinion forum that is U.S. based, and arguably U.S. biased, something we need to be careful to avoid. Fat&Happy (talk) 15:52, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
If the rankings changed between 2003 and 2007, that would be a dramatic and newsworthy event that no one seems to have covered. Slate is used as a source all over Wiki and no one else complains. The current lede implies that "Miss World" is at least the No. 2 pageant and "Miss Earth" is at least No. 3, but in fact both pageants are outranked not only by "Miss Universe", but also by "Miss USA" and "Miss America". Miss Universe supposedly has 600 million viewers,[3] compared to 300 million for Miss USA,[4] 100 million for Miss World,[5] and 70 million for Miss Earth.[6] Kauffner (talk) 05:37, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Criticisms

I came to this page so I could know the kind of criticisms there are regarding this competition. I guess there are some. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.216.51.48 (talk) 02:26, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure somebody must have criticized this specific competition, but I'm not aware of any notable instances. There is a brief section on generic criticism in the beauty contest article, and some additional comments in the "History" section of Miss America. Fat&Happy (talk) 03:11, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Here is an article accusing Trump of fixing the outcome. Kauffner (talk) 12:17, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
How about the fact that it's called "Miss Universe", yet only has contestants from one planet? 75.76.213.106 (talk) 06:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

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Please correct the error on the list of winning countries.

Greece is currently listed as having won 2 titles, 1964 and 1996. It had only won Miss Universe once, in 1964. The author/s must have confused the 1996 Miss World win of Greece as a Miss Universe win. 67.244.85.192 (talk) 22:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Venezuela

Can someone plz explain to me why are Venezuelan women winning so many times? Does it mean that Venezuelan women are the most beautiful? If not, then what is the actual rational scientific reason? Bribery? Bias? What is it?... --KpoT 21:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mizanthrop (talk • contribs)

The competition is rather silly and of course controversial. There are trends that seem to appear; for example new competing nations always seem to make it into the top 10 (they even expanded it the year Kazakhstan first entered to include them), Miss USA makes it into the top 10 to keep viewers, etc. It's political, and there is certainly a bias in favor of Latinas, most of which are light-skinned and easily able to pass as white. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Puchiwonga (talk • contribs) 07:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

In Venezuela we are almost 29 million people, slightly more than Texas and less than California, however We are a country of mixed races in about 50%, the rest are Spanish, Italian, Canarian (Isles of Spain), Portuguese, African descent, Arabs and Chinese, as well as Colombians, Argentines, Chileans, Germans, Croats, and of course our aborigines (currently roughly 1-2%). All these races and cultures live in almost 1 million square kilometers. The main reasons for great migrations were: The Venezuela War of Independence in 1810, the discovery of oil, petroleum, iron among other metals in about 1914 which also attracted many U.S. citizens. Due to World War II European Jews in general and also the Middle East, Switzerland, Netherlands and Hungary were received in Venezuela as their final destination. Venezuela is the second Latin American country to have more immigration from Europe and America itself, we’re also very tolerant and receptive. Venezuela is also one of 17 Megadiverse countries which is very attractive for many person around the world. Moreover in Venezuela there are many beauty contests, we have queens and princesses of all ages and for any simple or relevant event, which planted in the psyche of our girls the dream of being the princess and queen. If you add that there are also academies and schools to be models and beauty queens. That bring you an idea that in our country a Miss, Princess or Queen is given to us naturally, I can assure you that in Venezuela we have a family member, neighbor, or at least a girl or lady known that is a beauty queen :D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.14.197.54 (talk) 03:35, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Deborah Carthy-Deu won one of the preliminary competitions (evening gown).

This article mentioned her as one that did not win any preliminary competition and still won the pageant:

This article includes the scores:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Universe_1985 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.4.211 (talk) 16:49, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Contestant Notability

I started a discussion over on the Notability noticeboard for Miss Universe contestants. I'd appreciate it if y'all came by and shared your thoughts. Sang'gre Habagat (talk) 13:14, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Trivia

The whole Trivia section is both poorly sourced and therefore has a lot of original research. What can be done about this? Sang'gre Habagat (talk) 07:25, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request in History section

"The and" ... and what? Who knows how to correct this? --E4024 (talk) 22:38, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

 Fixed. Looked through the history and some IP removed "Great Depression", so I undid that edit. Sang'gre Habagat (talk) 23:26, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Patriotic Bias

One should mention the patriotic bias exhibited by the Miss Universe contests. 7 winners have been crowned Miss Universe on their home turf. In particular, 6 of the 8 American winners won the title in the US (where the contest was founded):

Miss patriot (talk) 08:21, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

User 74.32.4.199 deleted this although it seems important in these country tallies - why? Inserted again under the heading "Wins on Home Turf." Miss patriot (talk) 08:46, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

The same patriotic bias can be found in the Miss World contests. 7 winners have been crowned Miss World on their home turf. In particular, all of the 5 British winners won the title in the UK (where the contest was founded):

Miss patriot (talk) 09:02, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Remarkably, all of the 6 Miss World winners and 7 Miss Universe winners from Venezuela won their titles abroad. That is, despite its small population, Venezuela is head and shoulders above everybody else in terms of wins outside their own country. What does this tell us? Miss patriot (talk) 09:16, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

I had to undo revision by user 74.32.4.199 who keeps deleting the "wins on home turf" and "wins abroad" sections. I wonder what's the motivation of this user. Miss patriot (talk) 21:25, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Table of number of wins without home advantage

The previous section calls for another table:

Country Titles Years of wins outside the winner's own country
 USA 8 1954, 1956, 1960, 1967, 1980, 1995, 1997, 2012
 Venezuela 7 1979, 1981, 1986, 1996, 2008, 2009, 2013
 Puerto Rico 4 1970, 1985, 1993, 2006
 Sweden 3 1955, 1966, 1984
 Mexico 2 1991, 2010
 Japan 1959, 2007
 Canada 1982, 2005
 Colombia 1958, 2014
 Australia 1972, 2004
 India 1994, 2000
 Trinidad & Tobago 1977, 1998
 Thailand 1965, 1988
 Finland 1952, 1975
 Philippines 1969, 1973
 Brazil 1963, 1968
 Angola 1 2011
 Dominican Republic 2003
 Panama 2002
 Russia 2002 (Not Official)
 Botswana 1999
 Namibia 1992
 Norway 1990
 Netherlands 1989
 Chile 1987
 New Zealand 1983
 South Africa 1978
 Israel 1976
 Spain 1974
 Lebanon 1971
 Greece 1964
 Argentina 1962
 Germany 1961
 Peru 1957
 France 1953

Source:[1][2]

Miss patriot (talk) 16:51, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

I undid revision by user 74.32.7.118 who again deleted material on home advantage. Miss patriot (talk) 07:42, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Pageantopolis - Miss Universe
  2. ^ Miss Universe - Past Titleholders

Shortest Miss Universe Reign

Please include Miss Universe 1986, Barbara Palacios, because she reigned for 421 days, like Zuleyka Rivera. 04:18, 24 January 2015 (UTC)Frosta — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frosta (talk • contribs)

MISS UNIVERSE 2014

The new Miss Universe, as of fifteen minutes ago, is Paulina Vega of Colombia who was just crowned, but Dr. K. has reverted my edits. Gabriela Isler is NOT Miss Universe anymore! Rararawr21 (talk) 04:15, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Edit-warring over statistics trivia

The removed section is full of comparative statistics trivia. Unless these trivia have been collected and reported by a reliable source, they do not belong in this article because they are just original research. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 18:22, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

File:Sushmita Sen1.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Sushmita Sen1.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests April 2012
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This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 16:06, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

The winner of Miss Universe 1994, Sushmita Sen is a true symbolism of of elegance and grace. She is regarded as one of the most influential celebrity in India. She has a very successful career in the Bollywood film industry. Removing her from the Miss Universe Winners Gallery makes no sence as she is way better deserving for the Miss Universe Title than most of the recent winners. Brinda28 (talk) 08:21, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

File:Lara Dutta.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 14:33, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Miss Universe 2000, Lara Dutta is a true embodiment of Miss Universe. She holds the record for the highest score in the final question - answer round by her highly impressive intellectual skills, all of the judges giving her the maximum score of 9.99. She is regarded as a Superstar in India due to her highly successful career in Bollywood films. She is a highly influential celebrity in India. Removing her from the Miss Universe Winners Gallery makes no sence. Brinda28 (talk) 08:33, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

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Update?

Recently some news outlets like Edmonton Journal broke the story that Ashley Burnham from Canada won this year's Miss Universe contest in Minsk, citing the contest's Facebook page. However, the official website doesn't mention it and the news coverage is almost non-existent. Smells odd... Brandmeistertalk 15:13, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

That's Mrs Universe, not Miss Universe.147.194.16.123 (talk) 04:14, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Miss Universe 2015???

Why isn't there a page for Miss Universe 2015. There was used to be one but it now just redirects to the Miss Universe page. If you guys are going to plan to make the page, when will you make it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheLegoAirlines (talk • contribs) 23:58, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

    • With all the focus on the pageant lately due to Trump comments about Mexico and the severed ties with Univision, NBC and Televisa it certainly deserves to have an article already, even if the date has not been announced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.141.194.195 (talk) 00:08, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Many countries have elected/designated their delegates for the next Miss Universe edition, regardless of whether or not exists a date for it, we need an article containing at least a list of projected contestants...

    • But who keeps deleting the page? Why would anyone delete and redirect the page to the main page? Is there something wrong or what? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.155.118 (talk) 02:15, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

There is a date now (Dec.20), ¿when will the article be added?... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scorpio 68 (talk • contribs) 05:24, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

There was one and it was weird. I updated this article already.

MU 2015 on December 20

Hello, I would like to request that the redirect should be removed to the Miss Universe 2015 pageant because it has been confirmed that it will happen on December 20 in Las Vegas, since it has a new owner WME/IMG and not Donald Trump. So please do it as soon as possible because the contest is already near and is highly anticipated. Thank you --ThePHPageAnalyzer (talk) 14:06, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Request for comment: Miss Universe 2015

I am requesting comment about whether or not to have a full article on Miss Universe 2015. Right now Miss Universe 2015 is a protected redirect to the Miss Universe article. The article was redirected per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Miss Universe 2015 (2nd nomination), but that discussion took place in December 2014 when WP:CRYSTAL was applicable. People repeatedly tried to expand it into a full article. Per a request at WP:RFPP, I full-protected the redirect Miss Universe 2015, on the grounds that the date and place of the pageant had still not been announced.

On October 1 somebody created a new article, with the title The 64th Miss Universe Pageant (which is obviously the wrong title; when we get an actual article it should be called Miss Universe 2015). That one was also redirected, citing the AfD, but has since been re-expanded into a full article and is eagerly being edited by multiple users. I am wondering if I should restore and protect the redirect from The 64th Miss Universe Pageant, or if it is time for this to remain as an actual article (using the version at The 64th Miss Universe Pageant, renamed to Miss Universe 2015, since it is a better and more complete article than the original at Miss Universe 2015).

The arguments in favor of keeping this as a redirect and not having an actual article: the date and place of the pageant have not been announced on the Miss Universe website;[7] and the sources provided in this article are inadequate (some to Facebook, many in Spanish, etc.)

The arguments in favor of retaining an article are: Pageants News claims that the date and venue have been announced ("It's official!");[8] and the sourcing for the various contestants is similar to the sourcing at Miss Universe 2013 and far better than at Miss Universe 2014. It is possible that the lack of notice at the Miss Universe website relates to the fact that the Miss Universe Organization was sold to a different owner, WME/IMG, in September 2015.

I seek the advice of people experienced in this type of article. @The Banner: @Dravecky: @Ejgreen77: --MelanieN (talk) 16:53, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

P.S. In a search of Google News I could not find any announcement of the date and place of the event in any normal news organization. The only other source I found was Missosology.org. So if we restore an article, maybe it should make clear that the time and place have not been officially confirmed. --MelanieN (talk) 18:00, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
@MelanieN: If it's within 12 months of the event taking place, then, yes, it's worth an article (as an obviously notable event that, baring an act of God, is definitely going to take place). If it's still 2-3 years away, then, no, that's where WP:CRYSTAL truly comes into play. I should note that I'm not a MUO guy, so, if there's something screwey externally going on (that might actually cause the event not to take place), I'm not going to know about it. But, given that it's an event that appears to have been held every year since 1952, I don't see any reason to believe that it won't be held again this year. Ejgreen77 (talk) 17:31, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
The problem is that many pageant-related articles are not sourced by what are considered reliable sources conform WP:RS. Combined with loads of SPAs and confirmed sockpuppets (see for example Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mrdhimas/Archive, Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Dosmil2011/Archive, Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Cesaro2012/Archive) in this field, I get extremely cautious. With the several recreation of Miss Universe 2015 there was hardly or no sourcing of the pageant itself, there were only (and often related) sources for the participants. I would suggest not to reinstate the article until the pageant and its basic facts (date, venue etc.) are sourced with sources conform WP:RS. The Banner talk 20:47, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
I agree with The Banner that any pageant article should be reliably sourced with articles about the pageant itself when it is created. I do think that some leeway is possible on the specifics of time and place, as long as the general terms are reliably sourced. If you find a New York Times article that says "The Miss Example 2016 pageant will be held in November 2015 in Salt Lake City" that's enough to proceed with article creation. The precise date and venue should be added, of course, but not until they too can be reliably sourced. - Dravecky (talk) 17:49, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
So the consensus right now is, keep it as a redirect and protect it? As opposed to an article saying something like "Pageants News reported that the event will take place in Las Vegas on December 20, 2015,[9] but the Miss Universe Organization has not confirmed this."? --MelanieN (talk) 22:22, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
No, Melanie, I do not think it is a consensus just yet. I agree with EjGreen. If it is due to be done within the upcoming 12 months, I think the article should go ahead even if the exact date and venue have not been officially been announced. Thanks. WordSeventeen (talk) 23:00, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Well, while we discuss it, I have altered the lead paragraph to state that the date and place have been reported by Pageants News but not confirmed. --MelanieN (talk) 23:25, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
The pageant will take place within the next few months, and the article is appropriately sourced/organised. I see no problem with keeping it as its own page and don't understand people's wishes for a redirect. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 16:30, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

The details have been confirmed. [10] We can now have an article about the 2015 pageant. I will request somebody who understands history merging, to merge the current article The 64th Miss Universe Pageant with the current redirect, but previously full article, Miss Universe 2015. --MelanieN (talk) 23:53, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Miss Universe 2014

I have seen time and time again that Miss Universe 2014 has been removed from the main page as well as her photo. Can anyone from the team that has a license or copyright photo add one. Will you please?

As well as her page , Paulina Vega , her picture has been removed as well.


thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Socal78 (talk • contribs) 02:11, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Homicide and gaffe timing

As best as I can figure out, the alleged murder and injuries by Lakeisha Holloway was at 6:40 p.m. on the sidewalk to the west of Planet Hollywood. [11] The event was to run from 7 to 10 p.m. live EST = 4 to 7 p.m. live PST (though broadcast was tape delayed). [12] As far as I know that means that the slip-up with the crown occurred just minutes after an attack would have been reported. I haven't seen the news making this connection, but my feeling is that this offers a highly extenuating circumstance which, in the interest of BLP, I would love to see covered here in full detail. But there's still too little known for me to get very far with it at the moment, I think - anyone seen more about it? Wnt (talk) 20:08, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, unless there is a credible report that the homicide had any relationship to the pageant, I cannot imagine why we would include it. But if the driver says, "I decided to kill everyone because Miss Universe screwed up" ... then sure! Peter K Burian 20:18, 21 December 2015 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Peter_K_Burian
There's a separate article for Miss Universe 2015, so it should be there, not here. Thomas.W talk 21:06, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2015

Please change the order of the sentences and usage of words in, "The current Miss Universe is Pia Wurtzbach from the Philippines who was crowned on 20 December 2015 in Las Vegas, USA. However, minutes before her win was announced, the crown had been given to Miss Colombia Ariadna Gutiérrez because host Steve Harvey had misread the cue card listing the names." to "Originally Miss Colombia was announced as the winner of the competition, however minutes after her win was announced, the crown had been given to Miss Philippines because host Steve Harvey had misread the cue card listing the names." because the first statement sounds like Miss Philippines was stripped off the title and the crown was given to Miss Colombia, in which is informatively wrong and may lead to misinformation.

Another request: Please add Miss Pia Wurtzbach's picture on the gallery of Miss Universe winners. Doesn't need explanation, just following the format of the section.

U kent stopme (talk) 21:20, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

OK, I re-worded it for clarity; thanks for pointing that out. Peter K Burian 21:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Why undo a perfectly suitable paragraph that had excellent citations?

I hope you are not starting an Edit War! If you decide to do so, fine, but I will file for dispute resolution. (WP:DRR) Peter K Burian 22:29, 21 December 2015 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Peter_K_Burian

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2015

49.148.228.205 (talk) 00:01, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 11:17, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
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