Talk:Emergency service

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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Please Have feelings for the emergency personnel you term as being "Secondary"

Firstly let me make it completely clear that this is NOT a personal attack on an editor of this article.

Wikipedia is a laughing stock at the moment in the media for being unfactual . The example you give below in response to my comments only talks about AMERICA.

I ask again can we please get our facts straight before posting inaccurate information of Wikipedia. . Ive altered the title AGAIN to OTHER EMEREGENCY SERVICES and I have now reported the matter directly to wikipedia administraotrs as the use of the word "Secondary" is as i have said many times before both non factual, maybe deemed offensive by the personnel working in those agencies and may be derogatory.

AS YOU ADMITTED YOU HAVE NO CITATIONS TO BACK UP THE INFORMATION YOU FOUND OUT ON THE TERM "SECONDARY" AND YOU MAY HAVE BASED YOUR INFORMATION ON AN INDIVIDUALS THOUGHTS RATHER THAN THE POLICY OF THE ORGANISATION AS A WHOLE.

DO NOT USE THE TERM SECONDARY IT IS OFFENSIVE INACCURATE AND COULD BE CONSTRUDE AS BEING DEROGATORY TO THE PERSONNEL WHOM WORK FOR THOSE AGENCIES.

Other emergency services can overrule and take presidence over the other core emergency services referred to as the fire police and ambulance services - it all depends on the type of incidents involved and this article obviosuly has been produced by persons not armed with all the facts about what each agency actually does.

I give yet again another example - consider an incident at sea is unfolding the Coastguard would be the main agency resposnible for co-ordinating rescue efforts, with assistance from OTHER agencies such as the RNLI and SAR organisations. It wouldnt be the cops, fire or ambulance departments —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.81.117 (talk) 00:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I have placed a template on top of this article requesting a third opinion on this dispute. scetoaux ^{(talk) (My contributions.)} 01:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Coast guard

I wanted to change what now says "coastguard" to Coast Guard but I don't know if that would be Americocentric of me. Can any foreigners enlighten me? Tokerboy 01:41 Nov 16, 2002 (UTC)

The Coast Guard is a United states specific service. While it has a maritime Search and Rescue function I would see this as a sepecialised emergency service such as the Lifeboats run by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RLBI) around the coast of Britain or, for example, the Surf Lifesaving Clubs and volunteer Coastguards in Australasia. kiwiinapanic 23:58 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

What a silly debate "Coastguards" are called "Coastguards". Thats right Coastguards not Coast (space) Guards. Whoever started the debate about this is very very immature and seriously misinformed - stop wasting peoples time for goodness sake by picking hairs over silly irrelevant and stupid little quarms you may have. Im going to now report you to wikipedia admin staff. I am absolutely disgusted you felt it necessary to bring this up.

Those comments just there are near enough false. Coastguards have been around for quite a while, here and there in the world, and stemmed from revenue services. I don't know off hand if the function that the US Coastguard performed, that was also performed earlier in the UK, was ever formally called a "Coastguard" in the UK - but it existed.

But that function is not an emergency service, though aspects of that may have been hung on it later (after all, the US Navy was an offshoot of its Coastguard, formally speaking). And there have never been "coast" guards in Australia, though they have been suggested - what is being described are Lifeguards, and it is misleading to hang the name Coastguard on them. PML.

---

While not wishing to engage in a huge argument I see a distinction between the "Coast Guard" as a military force and the "Coastguard" as a lifesaving service. In both Australia and New Zealand Surf lifesaving clubs do operate lifeguards. However in New Zealand, boat owners also operate a volunteer Coastguard, with its own rescue boats, like the Lifeboats in Britain, whose prime function is maritime search and rescue. My - perhaps ill phrased - reference to Australasia (not just Australia) was intended to include that type of organisation that operates in New Zealand. It is obviously called something else in Australia, if it exists. Can anyone advise? kiwiinapanic 02:08 Jan 20, 2003 (UTC)

This page really needs cleanup work. There are so many things floating around out there. Everything emergency services related needs to be brought pack to one place. Jantman 21:17, 12 June 2006 (UTC)Jantman

Removal of Comment and Link

Hi Gunnar

I added a link to the emergency services page and some other pages related to emergency services, which you have since deleted as a spam or commerical link.

The link takes people to the international index of emergency service site which allows emergency service worker share expertise. I realise on reflection that I should have put my added article in a bit more context although I feel the link was as relevant as the NREMT which appears within wilkipedia on a number of pages and is as relevant to the link I inserted. The only difference between many of the link are they are American based and the other is not, this is the case of the Index link, which caters to a broader population than the US.

There was no intent to spam. I will re-think about how I should write an additonal piece so it can not be view as an "advert".

I am happy to discuss this further and comply to your rules. I am sorry if this has caused some distress.

In conclusion I think my addition to Emergency Services should be re-considered and the link is relevant to all who work in emergency services. If the link I proposed is considered inappropriate, then organisations such as commerical builders of ambulances (which appear on the ambulance page) and the National Register of EMTs should also be removed to ensure equity.

Look forward to further discussion

Andrew McDonell —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.150.122.57 (talk • contribs) .

The NREMT is an established registry established by the American Medical Association, and many other established organizations, founded after recommendation by a presidential commission. If you have a comparable international association link, feel free to link it, but discuss link inclusion on the talk pages of the relevant articles, and I suggest trying to get your link accepted to Paramedic first, without trying in other articles.

Your website seems like one of many catalogue services, and it is not scheduled for publication untill 2007. I did a search for some selected high-population countries without finding any people. On closer inspection, I see that sending an application costs 100 USD minimum, which is expensive for what is only a resume database — a service that is usually free of charge for resume-holders. First-year membership in the AMA, for example, is 210 USD, but that is a full proffesional association, with lobbyists and lots of member activities.

If you can find a better international site, I'd be happy to see it included. Thank you. --GunnarRene 09:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Can we please get our facts straight

Yet again the integrity of Wikipedia could be called into question by ill researched information regarding emergency services other than the Police, Fire and Ambulance Services. The Coastguard for instance is not a "SECONDARY" emergency service as stated and this could be interpreted as a derogatory offensive and inflamatory term. Again using ist as an example the Coastguard isn't a "SECONDARY" emergency service. Its the Primary rescue service relating to coastal or martitme emergencies alongside the RNLI .Can we please ensure in furture we use correct terminology that reflects the good work of all agencies throughout the globe who's prime objective is to save life. Im afraid alot of authors out there whilst well intentioned havent the first clue about emergency services around the world. If you are not well versed about the work of emergency services, dont write about them. Its a simple as that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.81.117 (talk) 01:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Once again I have changed this article

The use of the term Secondary emergency services is INCORRECT will you PLEASE not use it. I will change it and if you change it back again I will have to report this matter to a Wiki administrator. If you call the Coastguard for instance to undertake a rescue they will be the Primary emergency service attending that emergency.

I will say again the use of the term "Secondary" is misleading, may cause offence to those whom work for that particular emergency service for it suggest they are "second class", could be construded as being derogatory and is simply not factual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.180.250 (talk) 11:01, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a specific cite for this, but according to FEMA I was told that USCG is a primary search agency. It won't necessarily be THE primary agency, but it definately would take precedent over secondary search agencies, i.e. police, fire departments. But then again, this is an article about emergencies in general. Most of the time, if you have an emergency, it is going to be either fire, police, or EMS that come to your aide. Also, please avoid personal attacks against other editors. scetoaux ^{(talk) (My contributions.)} 20:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Third Opinion: "Secondary" vs "Other"

While I don't find "secondary" as derogatory, I do think that "other" would be more appropriate. For example, would emergency medical services be a secondary function when performed by fire departments? Would extrication (technical rescue) be considered a primary service if provided by a organization that only does rescue (albeit 90% of the time rescue operations are performed by the fire department)? While I understand the argument for "secondary" (the people rescue and extrication services are provided by the fire department secondary to their primary goal of fire suppression), I believe that "other" would be a more appropriate term. -JPINFV (talk) 06:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Globalisation

This article is overwhelmingly based on the USA, with the odd example from the UK. Also, it stretches the definition of an emergency service- for example, Highways Agency traffic officers are not an emergency service. A point best illustrated by the lights on the top of their vehicles- they are yellow as opposed to the blue they would be if it were an emergency vehicle. I would suggest revising these points and/or moving the article to "Emergency services in the United States" or a similar title. As for coastguard v Coast Guard, the former is a general term while the latter is specific to the US- as in Her Majesty's Coastguard contrasted with United States Coast Guard. Finally, I would be inclined to favour with the editor advocating the term "other" over secondary as the roles fulfilled by the smaller agencies- mountain rescue, lifeboats etc- is no less important, though the vast majority of such work is carried out by police, fire and ambulance services. HJ Mitchell (talk) 13:43, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I would oppose that move, as I think this is a fairly global article. The article does make a clear distinction for civil emergency services, which includes item such as road recovery. If you look up emergency (at any source really) I think its clear that emergencies are fairly subjective things, and can be right down at a personal level, which widens the scope of emergency to include some of these civil services. Things like road rescue are more subjective, but things like civilian traffic officers have a key part of their role as attending emergencies on the road network, as a second tier response, claiming traffic exemptions whilst they do so (regardless of the colour of their lights) - to quote the HA site "We are there to help you if you breakdown or are involved in a collision or incident" - all potentially within the scope of 'emergency'.

Your specific examples of coastguard and 'other' vs 'secondary' seems a little unecessary as the current revision of the article already includes these changes.

Do you have specific services you feel have been missed out from around the world, or have any here been given undue prominence? If so, i'm sure we can work on that rather than porting the article.

Regards, OwainDavies ^(about)_(talk) edited at 14:36, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the article could use a little touch up. Perhaps it should be divided into sections by country or specific reference given that certain services are country specific- such as the National Guard, which is very specific to the US and it certainly needs more global examples if it is to represent emergency services across the world, rather than those specific to the UK and US.

Gendarmerie (such as those in France and Italy) might be worth a mention, though they fulfil a very similar role to the police most of the time, and what about air ambulances? I believe I'm right in saying all air ambulances in the UK are privately or charitably run and are not part of ambulance services.

Finally, it lacks citations so no-one can verify the information, this makes it look shabby and unreliable- though most of the info seems factually accurate- and it makes it useless as a research tool which, after all, is kind of the point of putting it there in the first place! HJ Mitchell (talk) 15:28, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Agree on national guard, although the military has similar functions in most countries, so this probably needs rewording. I'm keen to avoid the 'by country' lists, as experience says that they tend to go on forever! Also agree on citations, i'll have a look and see what i can find on this. The 'core' should be easy to verify. OwainDavies ^(about)_(talk) edited at 15:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Saying that, I agree with you on the by country list- coastguard and emergency vehicle lighting are prime examples! I'll see what I can do to help when I'm done with my current project! HJ Mitchell (talk) 12:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Poor understanding

The article's editor has a poor understanding of emergency services.

"Core" emergency services can best be described as those that can be contacted directly by the public on a standard emergency telephone number(911/112/999 etc). Varying between countries these would usually be police (Guarda, Gendarmarie, etc) fire service, ambulance, mountain rescue and coast guard/coastguard. These services take control of incidents in their own right and may request assistance from "other" emergency services. These services are often created by statutory instruments.

"Other" emergency services would normally be those that are called in by the core services to assist in an incident. They cannot normally be contacted directly by the public for emergency assistance. For instance, In the U.K. most lifeboats are operated by the charity RNLI. However, in the event of an emergency at sea it is necessary to call the Coastguard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_Majesty's_Coastguard. They will in turn decide whether to call for response from the RNLI, the Royal Navy, other agency or even a private operator. A further example, in the event of a bomb threat the first point of contact will be the police. They will then decide whether to deal through their own resources or pass the incident to the appropriate military agency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb_disposal There is no telephone number through which a member of the public can contact an actual bomb disposal unit.

Further, in most democracies almost all emergency services are "civil." This includes police, fire, ambulance etc. The only agencies that are not civil are military. The author seems to think that it is possible to be neither. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.68.194 (talk) 22:22, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

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Wiki Education assignment: Communication and Culture

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 February 2021 and 14 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dcussick (article contribs).