Talk:Bifurcation diagram

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	This article is within the field of Chaos theory.

unstable solutions[edit]

The article claims that it is customary to show the unstable solutions as dotted lines, however the image is missing a number of unstable solutions (namely (r-1)/r). Can it be added please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.173.18.226 (talk) 15:22, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted[edit]

I have deleted most of this text since it was about the logistic map or about the mandelbrot set, but not about bifurcation diagrams and most of its contents was already contained under logistic map. I am not an expert on dynamical systems, so I hope someone else can write the appropriate article for this title. --Lenthe 16:29, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

When Xn+1 = R Xn another good way to show the stable points is to plot Xn+1 as function of Xn, with Excel it is easy to do, it can be verified that the system is chaotic when R is slightly higher than 3,57 (it will become non chaotic for higher values of R)

by Dingy, July 2005, figures homemade, can be used in the text

An important theorem about bifurcation diagrams is Sarkovskii's theorem, summarized as "Period three implies chaos".

Sarkovskii's theorem is not about bifurcation diagrams, since it doesn't say anything about how the cycle structure changes as the parameter is varied. Also "Period three implies chaos" is not Sarkovskii's theorem, and does not follow from it. AxelBoldt 02:17 Sep 30, 2002 (UTC)

The order in which the cycles first appear, starting with the 1-cycle and ending with the 3-cycle, is the same as Sarkovskii's order backward. "Period Three Implies Chaos" is by James Yorke. I haven't read it, but according to Chaos by James Gleick, when Yorke was in Berlin, Sarkovskii came up to him and told him that he had proved the same result. -phma

The diagram shown here is not a bifurcation diagram. It is an orbit diagram (which is unfortunately sometimes incorrectly referred to as a bifurcation diagram). A bifurcation diagram shows all cycles, attracting or otherwise, and does not include points that have not yet converged to a cycle, since it is not generated by iteration. I know of a good reference that explains the difference and has examples of both. I will try to find it. CyborgTosser (Only half the battle) 09:05, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Here it is. [1] CyborgTosser (Only half the battle) 01:47, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sarkovskii's theorem says that "period three" implies an infinity of periodic orbits, which is often one of the defining characteristics of chaos. However, this doesn't really have anything to do with bifurcation diagrams. This pages should perhaps contain bifurcation diagrams for the three simple local bifurcations (saddle-node, transcritical and pitchfork) and perhaps also for the Hopf bifurcation. The logistic map diagram is not a complete bifurcation diagram because it does not contain the unstable solutions after each of the period-doubling bifurcations, althought it is often referred to as such. Mathmoclaire 05:14, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite[edit]

I'm going to try and attempt to rewrite this page, as currently it's not really about bifurcation diagrams per se. If anyone has any comments or would like to help, that would be great. Mathmoclaire 13:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Which image is better?[edit]

The one on the top is better because it uses more iterations for every value of the parameter r; it then uses shades of grey to indicate which regions are visited most frequently. The picture is also bigger. On the other hand, the description of the bottom picture has some Octave code which may be useful. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 03:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It would be nice if the first one had source code... I don't understand the obsession with deleting all unused images ASAP. — Omegatron 14:47, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

external links and references missing[edit]

Please add some!Lakinekaki 21:11, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As an example: For x(n+1) = x(n).^2 -c; the code in Matlab can be written as [...]

This is NOT an Matlab term for the logistic map with which the example started, right?

The bifurcation diagram nicely shows [...]

I don't see a diagram for the Matlab example currently in the article. Maybe someone can generate one?

Thanks, --Abdull (talk) 08:43, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Edge of chaos[edit]

3.739 is P5. The edge of chaos where order is to the left and chaos is to the right is greater than 3.74432 but equal or less than 3.74433. -32ieww 10:09PM 11/19/2015 NY time 32ieww (talk) 03:09, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually 3.74432 has the occasional aperodic burst. According to my program the first one happens at about step 19000. -32ieww 10:14PM 11/19/2015 NY time 32ieww (talk) 03:14, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]